IRE_BND question

[mc]

Hello,

I have some trouble gettin the IRE_BND attribute right. How do I correctly insert "other indexes". I have tried (almost) all possible combinations but keep getting the message: "Mismatch in the number of elements provided and expected in Other_indexes column for attribute IRE_BND."
I could not proceed in the trades box to the part described in the manual as "Question XVIII. How to declare energy commodity trade parameters (matrix)?"; However, I was able to establish the trade links and tried to insert bounds manually. Btw., the input and output Comm of the IRE process are different (r1, exp, "GASNATHPG", r2,imp,"GASNATHP")

Please find attached an example of the TFM_INS.
Any help would be greatly appreciated,
thanks in advance.
Monika

~Scenario:GASNAT_TRADE

~TFM_INS

~include_tech

~exclude_tech

~include_comm

~exclude_comm

TS

BD

Prmtr

Yr

Other_Indexes

Tech_Comm_Info

AllRegions

AT

CH

DE

FR

Sets

Comm_OUT

Comm_IN

Tech_Name

Tech_Desc

Sets

Comm_OUT

Comm_IN

Tech_Name

Tech_Desc

Sets

Comm_Name

Comm_Desc

Sets

Comm_Name

Comm_Desc

TechRep_Only

T_Pos_AndOr

RD

FX

IRE_BND

DE,IMP

DE

47.9

TU_GASNAT_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

RN

FX

IRE_BND

DE,IMP

DE

52.25

TU_GASNAT_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

RP

FX

IRE_BND

DE,IMP

DE

4.354

TU_GASNAT_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

SD

FX

IRE_BND

DE,IMP

DE

56.61

TU_GASNAT_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

SN

FX

IRE_BND

DE,IMP

DE

61.75

TU_GASNAT_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

SP

FX

IRE_BND

DE,IMP

DE

5.146

TU_GASNAT_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

FD

FX

IRE_BND

DE,IMP

DE

47.9

TU_GASNAT_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

FN

FX

IRE_BND

DE,IMP

DE

52.25

TU_GASNAT_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

FP

FX

IRE_BND

DE,IMP

DE

4.354

TU_GASNAT_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

[AKanudia]

Try DE~IMP instead of DE,IMP

[mc]

Did the trick.
Many thanks!

[AKanudia]

Good. But I strongly recommend moving to the current version of VEDA FE. You are missing a LOT of advantages by staying with version 3. Mainly in terms of efficiency and robustness. Also, all new TIMES features will be added only to the current version.

[mc]

Hello everybody,
Again I would very much appreciate your help on 2 issues:
1.
I can not proceed in the trades box to the part described in the manual as "Question XVIII. How to declare energy commodity trade parameters (matrix)?"; However, I was able to establish the trade links and tried to insert bounds manually.
How can I use the trades box functionalities in VEDA4? Quote Manual:

"6.3.2. Trade parameters (R matrix)
This function is to define parameters for the links declared in the first step (section 6.3.1 and Figure 20). For the active commodity (selected in the top-left combo), the same region-region matrix appears with colored cells indicating the active links. These colored cells indicate that it is possible to enter values for various parameters, which are available in the top-right combo: BOUND(BD)OR, COST, CUM, ENV_SEP and START. Below, the user can also specify the period for which these values are valid, whether they apply to the importers or the exporters, and the type of bounds (LO, FX, UP). For all the options, it is possible to select only one element at the same time. It is important to save the values entered for a commodity before opening the matrix of another commodity or closing the window (they will not be stored otherwise)."
I can only establish the links, no further action.

2. When Imports from ROW are defined for the model regions, do I have to use the IRE_PRICE parameter, or is there another parameter that is specific for IMP/EXP from regions not included in the model. I suppose so, as the TIMES manual says on the topic:
IRE_PRICE:
Only applicable for interregional
exchange
processes (IRE).
· Ignored if all_r is an
internal region.
· Direct inheritance.
· Weighted aggregation.
IMPort/EXPort price
(index ie) for
to/from an internal
region of a
commodity ©
originating
from/heading to an
external region
all_r.
· The price of the
exchange
commodity is
applied to the
trade flow variable
(VAR_IRE) in the
variable costs
component of the
objective function
(EQ_OBJVAR).

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Many thanks in advance,
Monika

[Gargiulo]

Dear Monika,

I guess you are looking the old version of VEDA manuals.

Please follow these steps:
1) establish the trade links (you already done this)
2) check from the VEDA browse (TIMES view) the name of the new technologies generated automatically from VEDA_FE. The new technologies are called TB_ (if bilateral) or TU_ (if unilateral)
3) In the FE Navigator view click new under the box Trade_Scenario and give a name to your trade parameters scenario. Now a new empty scenario will be created in the Trade Scen box.
4) Open the new file and add the trade parameters that you need following the same rules used for a standard trade scenario.

You can find an example of Trade Scenario in the DEMO model (C:/VEDA/VEDA_Models/TIMES_DEMO/SuppXls/Trades/ScenTrade_TradeAttris.xls

Please let me know if it works well otherwise we can plan a GoToMeeting session tomorrow.

Thanks,
Mauri

[Antti-L]

Referring to your Question 2:

2. When Imports from ROW are defined for the model regions, do I have to use the IRE_PRICE parameter, or is there another parameter that is specific for IMP/EXP from regions not included in the model.

IRE_PRICE can be used for specifying the import/export price for imports/exports from/to an external region, i.e. a region that has no explicit representation in your model. For example, in the DEMO TIMES model the ROW region is an internal region and not an external region, and therefore using IRE_PRICE for the imports from the ROW region would have no effect. However, if indeed the ROW region is in your model an external region, then using IRE_PRICE for specifying the import/export prices is recommended, but not required. You could also use ACT_COST, FLO_COST or FLO_DELIV for defining the cost of the imported commodity.

[mc]

Many thanks for your replies.

Using VEDA4 I still have 2 questions:
is it at all possible to use the trades box for the IRE processes specified in the manual?  (Manual:"which are available in the top-right combo: BOUND(BD)OR, COST, CUM, ENV_SEP and START") - which are indeed not there.

After using VEDA4 now I don't have any entries in TIMES-view of the trades scenario.
Please find attached an example of my entries. (A shame, I had it work with IMP~reg, and now it's gone again...)

greetings,
Monika

~TFM_INS

TimeSlice

LimType

Attribute

Year

Attrib_Cond

Val_Cond

AllRegions

AT

CH

DE

FR

Pset_Set

Pset_PN

Pset_PD

Pset_CI

Pset_CO

Cset_Set

Cset_CN

Cset_CD

RD

UP

IRE_BND

47.9

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

GASNATHP

GASNATHPG

RN

UP

IRE_BND

52.2522

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

GASNATHP

GASNATHPG

RP

UP

IRE_BND

4.35435

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

GASNATHP

GASNATHPG

SD

UP

IRE_BND

56.60655

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

GASNATHP

GASNATHPG

SN

UP

IRE_BND

61.7526

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

GASNATHP

GASNATHPG

SP

UP

IRE_BND

5.14605

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

GASNATHP

GASNATHPG

FD

UP

IRE_BND

47.89785

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

GASNATHPG

GASNATHP

GASNATHPG

[Gargiulo]

I am not sure to understand your first question. Do you mean if it is possible to use the attributes listed in the bracket? If so yes as you can see from Advanced Functions/Attributes Masters because in VEDA-FE there are some alias to the TIMES atributes. Otherwise could you send a snap shot of the page you are looking on the manual bo better understand the problem?

About your example is missing the column Other_Indexes. Please try with Region~IMP and let me know.

Thanks,
Mauri

[Antti-L]

Monika:
If by a "trade box" you mean using a trade matrix representation for specifying attributes, yes, that is possible.  See an example below for the DEMO model (note also that the Sheet name should be in accordance with the Trade Link specification).

[mc]

Hi,
Mauri, Antti, thanks again for your replies.
Actually what I mean is:


this snapshot derives from: VEDA-SAGEℵ
Version 1.5.11
KanORS Inc./HALOA Inc.
Montréal, Canada

apparently, this feature would allow me to specify the trade attributes just as I would like them to be implemented in the model.
I have tried a TFM~INS via the attribute manager (great feature by the way) and came up with the following:

~TFM_INS

TimeSlice

LimType

Attribute

Year

Other_Indexes

Curr

Tech_Comm_Info

Pset_Set

Pset_PN

Pset_PD

Pset_CO

Pset_CI

Cset_Set

Cset_CN

Cset_CD

AllRegions

AT

CH

DE

FR

RD

UP

IRE_BND

DE~IMP

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

GASNATHP

GASNATHPG

GASNATHP

47.9

RN

UP

IRE_BND

DE~IMP

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

GASNATHP

GASNATHPG

GASNATHP

52.2522

RP

UP

IRE_BND

DE~IMP

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

TU_GASNATHPG_AT_DE_01

GASNATHP

GASNATHPG

GASNATHP

4.35435

Unfortunately, in TIMES view the attribute "IRE_BND" is not associated with the TU_GASNATHPG* process. Browsing for TU_GASNATHPG* processes yields to "No data found for selction".
Many thanks in advance.
Monika

[mc]

[mc]

page 40
VEDA-SAGEℵ
Version 1.5.11
KanORS Inc./HALOA Inc.
Montréal, Canada

[mc]

[Antti-L]

I believe that this Trades Prmtr Data Form is no longer supported, because you can use the Trade Matrix format directly in the Excel Trade Scenario templates instead. I think that should provide very much the same functionality, and it has the advantage that the data is being maintained in the Excel files.

The BOUND(BD)Or parameter is just an alias for ACT_BND, which you can specify in the matrix format, very much like the one shown in your picture, as illustrated in my previous post.